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Lee Liquid Alox bullet Lube

 

Test the assertion:

Lee Liquid Alox is a lube system of marginal functionality In handguns and totally inadequate for use in rifles.



 

under construction

This will ultimately be a very large page. It already has significant data but much more is coming.

Current Page Status
Date No. Results
12/06/2011 30
12/07/2011 36
12/10/2011 40
02/01/2012 58
03/05/2012 61 Loads / 17 Bullets
04/02/2012 65 Loads / 17 Bullets
04/25/2012 66 Loads / 17 bullets
05/11/2012 67 Loads / 17 bullets
11/30/2012 70 loads / 17 Bullets

 

 

 

 

 

Very few people are ambivalent about Lee Liquid Alox. Most people either love it or consider it useless. I am in the love it group.

The purpose of this experiment is to test the above assertion.

To make it easier for the reader, Loads where LLA failed will be listed in red type.

Velocities are estimated from published loads.
Velocities followed by "C" are chronographed here.  e.g.. 1251C  means the load was chronographed during test firing. All other velocities are estimated from publlished loading data.

Experiment design:

Firearms used:

   Browning Hi-Power .40 S&W
   Thompson Center Contender .357 Magnum with 12 inch barrel.
   Thompson Center Contender .30-30 Winchester 23 inch barrel.
   Thompson Center Contender .44 Remington Magnum 10 inch barrel.
   Winchester replica 1885 Highwall .38-55 Winchester 22 inch barrel
   Smith and Wesson M19-3 6 1/2 inch barrel with compensator
   Smith and Wesson M629-2 6 inch
   Kimber Grand Raptor M1911 .45 ACP 5 inch barrel.
   Kimber Stainless Steel Target Model M1911 5 inch barrel.
   Ruger New Model Black Hawk 7 1/2 Inch
   Ruger SP-101 .357 Mag Model 5764 2.25" Five Shot.
   Springfield Armory XD(M) .40 S&W

Bullets used:

 
Handgun Bullets in Test
  
Mold Manufacturer Mold Id Bullet Base Bullet Description Lube
Ballisti-Cast #668 BB .45 cal(H&G #68 clone) C
Ballisti-Cast #651  FB .357 cal 158 grain Keith-Type SWC. C
Lee TL356-124-TC BB 9mm cal 124 gr truncated cone T
Lee TL358-158-SWC BB .357 cal 158 gr SWC T
Lee TL358-158-SWC FB Modified mold to remove the beveled base.  
Lee C358-158-SWC FB  .357 cal 158 gr SWC conventional Lube ( gas check ) C
LBT 431-230-OWC FB 44 caliber 230 grain ogival wadcutter  
Lee TL401-175-SWC BB .40 Cal SWC ( looks more like a truncated cone to me ) T
Lee TL430-240-SWC BB .44 cal 240 gr tumble lube T
         
Lee 452-200-SWC BB .45 cal 200 gr SWC conventional lube (H&G #68 clone) T
Magma 09-125-RN BB  9mm cal 125 gr Round Nose (H&G 115 clone) C
Magma 09-147-FP BB 9mm cal 147 gr flat point C

 

Rifle Bullets in Test
Mold Manufacturer Mold Id Bullet Base Bullet Description Lube
Lee C309-170-F FB GC .30 cal 170gr FP C
Lee 379-250-RF BB .375 cal 250 gr RN FP C
Lyman 311008  FB .30 Cal 120 gr RN FP C
Lyman 375248  FB .375 cal 249 gr RN FP C
Lyman 375449 FB .375 Cal 220 gr custom plain base.*
C

*Gas check shank removed by Erik at http://www.hollowpointmold.com/
 

There are many methods of applying Lee Liquid Alox. I use only two of them. I size the bullets un-lubed then tumble them in a zip lock bag with straight Lee Liquid Alox diluted with 30% mineral spirits. Sometimes I tumble them once and sometimes twice.

 

Lee Liquid Allox Bullet Lube - Single Tumble, Double Tumble

Lee C309-170-F .30 Cal 170 grain flat point.

This photo illustrates how much lube is applied. From left to right they have no lube, tumbled once, tumbled twice. Note that when tumbling twice, the first coat must be completely dry. I do this by placing the wet bullets on a sheet of wax paper on a cookie sheet and set them in front of a fan set to low speed.

Test Results:

Bullet Tested

 

Magma 09-147-FP BB 9mm 147 gr FP
Firearm Cartridge Load Gr Velocity Lube Leading
TC  .38 Special Unique 5.0 1000E Magma Blue Severe
TC .38 Special Unique 5.0 1000E LLA None
             
Load Firearm Cartridge Powder Gr Velocity Lube Leading Comment
3 TC .38 Spec Unique 5.0 1000 Magma Blue Severe   
3a TC .38 Spec Unique 5.0 1000 LLA None Above load was re-lubed with LLA AFTER Loading by dipping the bullet tips in the LLA
For details, see:  Lee Liquid Alox re-Lube
                 
           

 

Lee TL356-147-TC 147 gr Truncated Cone

Load Firearm Cartridge Powder Gr Velocity Lube Leading Comment
  TC .38 Special A No. 2 3.8 700 RJ None  
  TC .38 Special A No. 2 3.8 700 LLA None  
  TC .357 Mag A No. 2 5.0 1000E LLA None  
  S&W M 19 .357 Mag A No. 2 5.0 1000E LLA None  
  TC .357 Mag A No. 2 6.5 1200E LLA None  
  S&W M 19 .357 Mag A No. 2 6.5 1200E LLA None  
                 

 

 

Lee C358-158-SWC .357 158 gr SWC Gas Check



Load Firearm Cartridge Powder Gr Velocity Lube Leading Comment
252

TC

.357 Mag

A No. 9

11.6

1100

LLA

None

With gas check.
253

TC

.357 Mag

A No. 9

11.6

1100

LLA

None

No gas check.
220

TC

.357 Mag

A No. 9

12.0

1200

LLA

None

With gas check.
252

S&W M19

.357 Mag

A No. 9

11.6

1100

LLA

None

With gas check.
253 S&W M19 .357 Mag A No 9 11.6 1100 LLA None No gas check.
240

TC

.38 Spec

A No. 2

4.0

800

LLA

None

With gas check.
241

TC

.38 Spec

A No. 2

4.0

800

LLA

None

No gas check.
240

S&W M19

.38 Spec

A No. 2

4.0

800

LLA

None

With gas check.
241

S&W M19

.38 Spec

A No. 2

4.2

880

LLA

None

No gas check.
240 Ruger 101 .38 Spec A No 2 4.0 800 LLA None With Gas check
252 Ruger 101 .357 Mag A No. 9 11.6 1100 LLA None With Gas check

 

Lee 358-158-SWC, 158 gr SWC

Load Firearm Cartridge Powder Gr Velocity Lube Leading Comment
  TC .38 Spec 4756 5.0 900 LLA None  
  S&W M 19 .38 Spec 4756 5.0 900 LLA None  
183 TC .38 Spec A No. 2 4.0 800 RJ None  
201 S&W M19 .38 Spec A No. 2 4.0 800 RJ None  
  TC .38 Spec A No. 2 4.2 880 LLA None  
  S&W M 19 .38 Spec A No. 2 4.2 880 LLA None  
  Win M-92 .38 Spec A No. 2 4.2 950 LLA None  
  TC .357 Mag A No. 9 12.0 1500 LLA None  
  S&W M 19 .357 Mag A No. 9 12.0 1200 LLA None  
  TC .357 Mag A No. 2 6.5 1200 LLA None  
  S&W M 19 .357 Mag A No. 2 6.5 1200 LLA None  
280 TC .38 Spec A No. 2 4.2 800 LLA Severe Bullet very hard BNH 21 Bore Diameter = .3568 Bullet Diameter = .357
Classic case of hard undersized bullet.
280 TC .38 Spec A No 2 4.2 800 LLA None Exactly the same load as above except bullet BNH = 10.
281 TC .38 Spec Bullseye 3.5 750 LLA None  
  Ruger 101 .357 Mag A No. 9 12.0   LLA    

 

Ballisti-Cast # 651  .357 158 gr PB SWC


Load Firearm Cartridge Powder Gr Velocity Lube Leading Comment
247

TC

 .357 Mag

A No. 9

11.6

1100E

LLA

None

247

S&W M19

 .357 Mag

A No. 9

11.6

1100E

LLA

None

138

S&W M19

.38 Spec

A No. 2

4.0

900E

LLA

None

Sized .356  Lubed before sizing but not after

138

TC

.38 Spec

A No. 2

4.0

800E

LLA

Severe

Sized .356 Lubed before sizing but not after

177

TC

.357 Mag

Herco

7.8

1200E

LLA

Severe

202 S&W M19 .38 Spec A No. 2 4.2 800 LLA Mild BNH 18 Sized .357
202 TC .38 Spec A No. 2 4.2 800 LLA Moderate BNH 18 Sized .357
319 TC .38 Spec Bulls Eye 3.0 700 LLA Mild BNH9 Sized .358
320 TC .38 Spec Bulls Eye 4.0 800 LLA Mod/Sev BNH9 Sized .358
321 TC .38 Spec Bulls Eye 5.0 700 LLA Mild BNH9 Sized .358






Lee C-309-170-F

Accurate = Sub 2" @ 100 yd
Accuracy gone = > 12 inches

Load Firearm Cartridge Powder Gr Velocity Lube Leading Comment
258 TC .30-30 4756 8.0 1251C LLA None Tumbled once. No gas check. Accurate
261 TC .30-30 4756 9.0 1280C LLA None Tumbled once. No gas check. Accurate
262 TC .30-30 4756 10.0 1353C LLA None Tumbled once. No gas check. Accurate
260 TC .30-30 2015 23 1800 LLA None Tumbled once. With gas check. Accurate
266 TC .30-30 2015 26 1951C LLA None Tumbled Once. No gas check.  - Accuracy Gone
267 TC .30-30 2015 25 1819C LLA None Tumbled Once. No gas check  - Accuracy Gone
268 TC .30-30 2015 27 1926E LLA None Tumbled  Twice With gas check - Accuracy Gone
269 TC .30-30 2015 25 1819E LLA None Tumbled Twice With gas check Accurate
270 TC .30-30 2015 26 1926C LLA None Tumbled Once No gas check - - Accuracy Gone
271 TC .30-30 2015 27 1981C LLA None Tumbled Once No gas check  - Accuracy Gone
                 



Lyman 375248  250 gr RNFP

Load Firearm Cartridge Powder Gr Velocity Lube Leading Comment
264 Win 1885 .38-55 2015 23 1414C LLA None Tumbled Once.  Not Sized.  .312 Dia.
                 
                 




Lyman 375449 .216 gr Modified


Load Firearm Cartridge Powder Gr Velocity Lube Leading Comment
263 Win 1885 .38-55 2015 25 1582C LLA None Tumbled Once. Not sized.  .312 Dia.
                 
                 


Lee TL401-175-SWC .40 cal SWC.

Load Firearm Cartridge Powder Gr Velocity Lube Leading Comment
276 S&W 4014 .40 S&W A No.2 4.0 LLA None Tumbled once sized .401
276 SIG 229 .40 S&W A No.2 4.0   LLA None Tumbled once Sized .401
277 S&W 4014 .40 S&W A No.2 4.4 LLA None Tumbled once sized .401
277 SIG 229 .40 S&W A No.2 4.4   LLA None Tumbled once Sized .401
278 S&W 4014 .40 S&W A No.2 4.2 LLA None Tumbled once sized .401
278 SIG 229 .40 S&W A No.2 4.2   LLA None Tumbled once Sized .401
279 S&W 4014 .40 S&W A No.2 4.8 LLA None Tumbled once sized .401
279 SIG 229 .40 S&W A No.2 4.8   LLA None Tumbled once Sized .401
279 S&W 4014 .40 S&W A No.2 5.2 LLA None Tumbled once sized .401
279 SIG 229 .40 S&W A No.2 4.8   LLA None Tumbled once Sized .401
279 Springfield XDM .40 S&W A No. 2 4.8   LLA None Tumbled once Sized .401
279 Browning Hi-Power .40 S&W A No. 2 4.8   LLA None Tumbled once Sized .401
                 




Lee T430-240 SWC  Tumble lube


Load Firearm Cartridge Powder Gr Velocity Lube Leading Comment
288 Ruger BH .44 Magnum Bullseye 9.0 1088 LLA None Tumbled Once. Sized .430 Lee says < 34,000 PSI No signs of pressure
                 
                 



Lead Bullet Technologies 431-230-OWC  ( Ogival Wadcutter )

 
Load Firearm Cartridge Powder Gr Velocity Lube Leading Comment
368 S&W 629 .44 Mag Herco 11 1000 LLA SEVERE Rarely seen this bad
                 
                 



Lee 452-200-SWC  .45 cal 200 gr SWC conventional lube (H&G #68 clone)


Load Firearm Cartridge Powder Gr Velocity Lube Leading Comment
224 Kimber 1911 .45 ACP A No. 2 5.7 860 LLA None Conventional bullet with single lube groove - Tumbled.
                 
                 



End of data





















Blank Standard Load Table (Leading)

Load Firearm Cartridge Powder Gr Velocity Lube Leading Comment
                 
                 
                 
                 
                 
                 
                 
                 
                 
                 
                 















 

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